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Tory leadership rivals turn on Jenrick over claims SAS ‘killing, not capturing, terrorists’ – UK politics live | Politics

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Key events

In his interview on the Today programme, when asked to explain why he had gone from being an MP who voted against Brexit to one who is now, not just a supporter of Brexit but an advocate of leaving the European convention on human rights, Robert Jenrick said his values had not changed, but that his policies views had adapted in response to what he had learned.

Jenrick said:

My values haven’t changed, but it’s certainly true that over time the things I have seen in the ministerial jobs that I have done have led me to conclusions that the British state isn’t working in the interests of the British people, and in particular my time at the Home Office where I saw that we were not able to secure our borders and to keep the public safe, which to my mind is the most basic duty of our country.

Robert Jenrick being interviewed this morning. Photograph: Justin Tallis/AFP/Getty Images

These are from my colleague Peter Walker, who is at a fringe meeting organised by Popular Conservatism (PopCon), the rightwing group set up by Liz Truss supporters. Peter is not impressed by their strategic acumen.

I’m at a Tory fringe event about how to see off Reform, and already we’re hearing that the solution is – yes, for them to be more right wing on issues like migration, crime, tax, culture wars. The event hasn’t actually been organised by the Lib Dem’s, but it might as well be. pic.twitter.com/KB4zxsbTHB

— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) October 1, 2024

I’m at a Tory fringe event about how to see off Reform, and already we’re hearing that the solution is – yes, for them to be more right wing on issues like migration, crime, tax, culture wars. The event hasn’t actually been organised by the Lib Dem’s, but it might as well be.

It’s worth stressing that this event is a particular strand of Tory thought – it’s organised by the Truss-friendly PopCons – but the wider, “If we’re properly right wing we’ll win again” idea is all over the Tory conference.

Another big conference theme, also echoed at this event, is the implicit idea that Labour are doing so badly in government that the Tories basically just need to get their act together and they’ll win in 2029. Who knows, it *could* happen. But it’s not an actual strategy.

Another speech, by ex-MP Marco Longhi, says Reform only exists because the Tories have given them the space to do so. That’s very arguably a misunderstanding of how populism works. As the ever-hardening of Brexit showed, there will *always* be room to shout, ‘Betrayal!’

This fringe event has now been told that the behaviour of Keir Starmer in government is already “much worse” than that of Boris Johnson. Hmmmmm.

A dose of realism from Marco Longhi – he tells the panel that of the Tories’ 121 MPs, only about 20 share the views at this event. However, he then says a new leader might need to remove the whip from a number of more liberal types, as Boris Johnson did over Brexit.

Jenrick has almost caught up with Badenoch in popularity with Tory members, poll suggests

While Robert Jenrick is under pressure this morning because of his SAS/ECHR comments, there is good news for him in some YouGov polling for Sky News. As Sky reports, it suggests that over the last six weeks Kemi Badenoch’s 18-point lead with Tory members as their favourite for next leader has massively shrunk. Sky’s Sam Coates reports:

Tory members opted for Ms Badenoch by 59% to Mr Jenrick’s 41% six weeks ago – an 18-point lead – if the pair were head to head in the final round.

Now they would choose Ms Badenoch by 52% to Mr Jenrick’s 48%, only a four-point lead, according to the new Sky News poll of 802 Tory members conducted over nine days to Sunday night.

Badenoch is still ahead on this measure. But it seems likely that Badenoch won’t make the final two (that’s why Jenrick is the bookmakers’ favourite, not Badenoch), and if Badenoch is not on the final ballot, the YouGov polling suggests Jenrick would beat any other potential contender.

Why do people think Badenoch won’t make the final two, when voting in the last MPs’ ballot was relatively close (Jenrick 33, Badenoch 28, James Cleverly and Tom Tugendhat both on 21)?

First, because when MPs vote again next week, the 16 votes for Mel Stride (eliminated) will be up for grabs, and it is assumed they will go for someone more in the One Nation tradition rather than Badenoch, who is arguably the most rightwing candidate in the race (even though she has not adopted the hardest line on immigration and the ECHR).

And, second, it is assumed that Tugendhat (high chance) and Cleverly (low chance) are the candidates most likely to be knocked out in the next vote. That means, because of their politics, it is not thought many of their votes will go to Badenoch when MPs vote for the second time next week, on Thursday, to choose the top two from a list of three.

The YouGov polling also suggests that, if Jenrick and Cleverly are the two names on the final ballot (a reasonable assumption, although no one can say for sure), Jenrick has a narrow lead, but not enough to make the result a foregone conclusion. Coates says:

The polls show Mr Cleverly trailing Mr Jenrick by just four points in the final round. If they are head to head, Mr Jenrick gets 52% and Mr Cleverly 48%. Against Ms Badenoch, the gap is slightly bigger – eight points – with her on 54% and him on 46%.

Mr Tugendhat fares the worst in the final round, according to the polling. He would lose to both Ms Badenoch and Mr Jenrick 58% to 42% – by 16 points.

Coates has put all the final round scenarios from the polling on social media.

Sky News / YouGov Tory members poll
20-29 Sept

Final round scenarios
Jenrick 48 – Badenoch 52
Jenrick 52 – Cleverly 48
Jenrick 58 – Tugendhat 42
Badenoch 54 – Cleverly 46
Badenoch 58 – Tugendhat 42
Cleverly 55 – Tugendhat 45 https://t.co/Ww5MS40bO7

— Sam Coates Sky (@SamCoatesSky) October 1, 2024

This is from Kevin Schofield from HuffPost UK on Robert Jenrick’s Today programme interview. (See 9.08am.)

Pretty clear, having listened to Robert Jenrick’s interview with @MishalHusain, that he doesn’t have any evidence to back up his claim that the SAS are killing terrorists rather than capturing them because they believe the ECHR will just let them go.

— Kevin Schofield (@KevinASchofield) October 1, 2024

Pretty clear, having listened to Robert Jenrick’s interview with @MishalHusain, that he doesn’t have any evidence to back up his claim that the SAS are killing terrorists rather than capturing them because they believe the ECHR will just let them go.

And this is from my colleague Ben Quinn.

Robert Jenrick almost *more* uncomfortable about being reminded he backed Remain☠️ than the lack of evidence around his claim UK special forces are now killing rather than capturing because of the ECHR#r4today

— Ben Quinn (@BenQuinn75) October 1, 2024

Robert Jenrick almost *more* uncomfortable about being reminded he backed Remain☠️ than the lack of evidence around his claim UK special forces are now killing rather than capturing because of the ECHR#r4today

Jenrick defends claim about SAS killing not capturing terrorists due to ECHR, saying his point ‘absolutely correct’

This is what Robert Jenrick told the Today programme this morning when Mishal Husain asked him to defend the line in the video he released yesterday where he said: “Our special forces are killing rather than capturing terrorists because our lawyers tell us that if they’re caught, the European court [of human rights] will set them free.”

Husain asked where this was happening.

In response, Jenrick said he was just reflecting what Ben Wallace told the Telegraph last year. (See 8.46am.) Jenrick said:

The point I was making is one that former defense secretary Ben Wallace has made, which is that our human rights apparatus, including the ECHR [European convention on human rights], is encroaching on the battlefield, and it is impacting the decisions that our generals and military decision makers are taking as to what kind of action is required in these difficult situations.

And I think that’s putting an unnecessary and unfair burden upon them when they should be taking the right decisions for our safety as a country.

Husain said Jenrick says special forces “are killing” not capturing terrorists. She asked again if he thought this was happening now. And, again, Jenrick just referred to what Wallace said. Husain tried again at least a couple more times, but just got the same answer.

When she put it to him that he should have chosen his words more carefully, Jenrick said he did not agree. “The point I was making was absolutely correct,” he said.

Husain also pointed out that, although Jenrick was quoting Wallace to defend his point, Wallace in his Telegraph interview explicitly said he was not calling for the UK to leave the ECHR.

Tory leadership rivals turn on Jenrick over claims SAS ‘killing, not capturing, terrorists’

Good morning. In a leadership contest, sometimes the dynamic changes because one candidate has a postive breakthrough moment (like David Cameron did in 2005, when his passionate, no-notes speech to the Tory conference turned him almost overnight into the favourite). But more often the odds shift because someone has messed up. Kemi Badenoch’s campaign faltered this week after her maternity pay gaffe. And now Robert Jenrick, the bookmakers’ favourite, has also made an error serious enough to cost him support.

Yesterday he released a video claiming that that UK special forces are “killing rather than capturing” terrorists because of fears that European laws would free any detained assailants. As Rajeev Syal, Jessica Elgot and Dan Sabbagh report, he has been condemned for saying this by Labour and by figures in the military.

Now fellow leadership candidates are also piling in, saying that he is wrong and suggesting that his comments are maligning special forces.

In an interview on Sky News this morning, Tom Tugendhat, a former soldier, was asked if he agreed with Jenrick that the SAS were killing rather than capturing people because of human rights laws. Tugendhat replied:

No, I don’t. I think what he said is wrong, and I’m afraid demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of military operations and the law of armed conflict.

I’m extremely concerned that such words should not be seen in any way to encourage people to take any action other than surrender to British forces when asked to do so.

I think he’s wrong, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding.

And James Cleverly, the former foreign secretary who has also served in the military, also refused to back Jenrick’s claim. Asked on Sky News if Jenrick was right to say the SAS were acting in this way, Cleverly replied:

You’re going to have to ask Robert to justify that statement.

That’s not something which I have heard, that’s not something which I’m comfortable repeating.

As I say, if Robert is able to justify that, I think he should.

The British military always abide by international humanitarian law, the law of armed conflict. We have the the most professional military in the world are military. Our military do not murder people.

Jenrick was on the Today programme this morning where he had a difficult time defending what he said. He would not accept that he was wrong, or that he should have chosen his words more carefully, but when asked repeatedly if he was sure the armed forces were “killing rather than capturing” terrorists now because of human rights law, he just repeatedly referred to a Telegraph interview that Ben Wallace, the former defence secretary, gave last year where he said:

When we have a threat to the UK, this lunacy of being unable to render people across borders or arrest people in countries whose police forces are unacceptable, means that we are more often than not forced into taking lethal action than actually raiding and detaining.

I will post more from the Jenrick interview soon.

Here is the agenda for the day.

10am: The Tory conference opens, with sessions on the main stage covering policing, the future generation and policy.

2pm: Robert Jenrick takes part in a Q&A on the main stage at conference.

2pm: Tom Tugendhat takes part in an conversation event at a fringe organised by Onward. At 3.10pm he will doing the same at a Centre for Policy Studies fringe.

3pm: James Cleverly does his Q&A on the main stage.

5pm: Kemi Badenoch takes part in an in conversation event at a fringe meeting with the outgoing Spectator editor, Fraser Nelson.

If you want to contact me, please post a message below the line (BTL) or message me on social media. I can’t read all the messages BTL, but if you put “Andrew” in a message aimed at me, I am more likely to see it because I search for posts containing that word.

If you want to flag something up urgently, it is best to use social media. I’m still using X and I’ll see something addressed to @AndrewSparrow very quickly. I’m also trying Bluesky (@andrewsparrowgdn) and Threads (@andrewsparrowtheguardian).

I find it very helpful when readers point out mistakes, even minor typos (no error is too small to correct). And I find your questions very interesting too. I can’t promise to reply to them all, but I will try to reply to as many as I can, either BTL or sometimes in the blog.

Tom Tugendhat on Sky News this morning. Photograph: Sky News
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